With his Dune films, director Denis Villeneuve tries to do what even Frank Herbert couldn’t: turn Paul Atreides into a villain
When Polygon started talking to Villeneuve about adapting Dune Speaking about two films, he said the goal was always to film the story that author Frank Herbert wanted his audience to walk away with, a story that showed the dangers of charismatic leaders and fanaticism. Oh, and he’s working on the screenplay for a third installment that has yet to be greenlit.
Read on for our conversation with Villeneuve about how strange Dune gets into the back half of the story, the puzzle of what to keep in an adaptation and what to throw away, and his thoughts on whether the conclusion of his Dune trilogy – Dune Messiah – will still be released in theaters.
(Ed. note: This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.)
The paradox of Dune is that it’s a story about humanity, but told through a human society so far in the future that it might as well be an alien society. A lot of the really alien stuff is in the second half of Duneand it feels like you enjoyed delving into stranger environments, stranger events, and stranger characters.
Dennis Villeneuve: Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. In a way, Part One was a slow introduction, gentle. As the main character, the camera was just above Paul Atredies’ shoulder, and we slowly discovered a planet and discovered the ends of Fremen culture. But it was very gentle. The second film is much more muscular. He falls into the river (laughs), he really gets immersed in that culture and becomes a warrior. It’s much more of an action movie. It allowed me – because the story is simpler in a way – to go deeper and explore more, and the Fremen culture and the Harkonnen culture. That was so much fun for me as a director.
Was it just the events in the book, or was it its success? Dune: part one also part of having more room to expand?
It’s more that the way we structured both films required a lot of exposition Part One. And that exhibition that was created gave me more freedom Part twoCertainly.
Photo: Niko Tavernise/Warner Bros.
When you customize something as compact as Dune you make a lot of choices about what details will appear in the film, what will be discussed briefly, and what might not appear at all. Did you have any guiding principles in figuring out what would come out of the book?
My guiding principles were Frank Herbert’s intentions. Specific for (Dune), he was disappointed with the way people saw the story. He felt that people misunderstood Paul Atreides; that people saw him as a hero, when he wanted to do the opposite. So in response he wrote Dune Messiah to hold on to the idea that Paul was a dangerous figure, and that the first book was more of a cautionary tale or more of a warning against today’s charismatic leaders. Knowing that gave me a lot of information on how to approach this second film to make sure I was moving toward all of Frank Herbert’s original intentions.
You have indicated that you really want to do this Dune Messiah as a film, although nothing is certain yet. It seems like it would be so intimidating to put aside parts of a story, perhaps ones you really like, for the next episode, when you’re not sure you’re going to understand it. Did you have trouble thinking? If I don’t put it here, I may never do it?
Oh, no, no, no, no, no. When you make films, it’s always a gamble. But I don’t see it that way. (Co-writer) Jon Spaihts and I, when we wrote the (Dune part one) scenario, we felt confident that this was the most precise and elegant way to convey the story we wanted to tell from that book. So when I made Part twoI focused completely and devoted all my energy specifically to that film. With all the films I make in my life, I try to make the film as if it were the last. It’s the only way you can really make films, primarily because of the amount of energy I put into those films. The best way to do it is as Okay, that’s the last one, so I gave it my all. You never know what the future will consist of. Of course, I turned in some Easter eggs, a projection of the future, as I did in Part One for Part twoand for Part two I did the same. There are some little clues (about) what might be there Dune Messiah but it’s very subtle.
Photo: Niko Tavernise/Warner Bros.
Are you confident that you will succeed? Dune Messiah? Or is it too early to tell?
I’ll say that because I just finished Part two Recently I am still processing the experience, I am now busy with the press. But the more time passes, the more I think I will have the desire to do it, if we have a strong screenplay. We are working on it now and we are inspired. I think we have something strong, but when I’m going to do it – is it my next film, or the film after that, I don’t know. I will know when the screenplay will be ready.
What is the most important thing you learned about Frank Herbert’s book from making these films?
How far-sighted he was at that time. He was like the prophet who spoke alone in the wilderness, and today all the topics and all the warnings he said are more relevant than before. If you think about the climate, or the danger of mixing religion and politics, or the danger of the charisma of leaders, and the power of AI, the danger of AI, fanaticism. Unfortunately, it has become more and more relevant over time.