Our Flag Means Death spoilers: The show’s creator unpacks the big drama of season 2’s penultimate episode

Season 2 of HBO’s pirate comedy/romance Our flag stands for death takes some big turns during episode 7 — maybe not as big as season 1’s turn, when the clumsy pirate captain Stede Bonnet (Rhys Darby) and Ed “Blackbeard” Doc (Taika Waititi) realize they have romantic feelings for each other, but still… a lot happens as viewers they would like to speak with figures, once they had seen for themselves. So when Polygon sat down with creator and showrunner David Jenkins to talk about season 2, we split the conversation into two parts: an overview of the season’s biggest ideas, and here’s a spoiler-filled conversation about all the intrigue in episode 7, including its explosive sequel.

(Ed. note: Read at your peril; he put the robbers in front.)

Photo: Nicola Dove/Max

Recap: In episode 7 of Our flag stands for death In Season 2, Stede and Blackbeard have now had sex for the first time, and they seem to be happily ever after together — until Blackbeard abruptly leaves Stede to pursue a job as a fisherman. A group of pirates visit the Republic, where Oluwande (Samson Kayo) expresses his feelings for Zhang Yi Sao (Ruibo Qian), despite the fact that he previously hated him by expressing his feelings when he took over his ship, and despite him and his. friend Jim (Vico Ortiz) had a romantic relationship in season 1. They also learn that Swede (Nat Faxon) has happily settled down as one of the 20 men for Spanish Jackie (Leslie Jones), although he was forced into that relationship. the rest of the crowd sang.

Now that you mention it, that sum from my work sounds like something. But it doesn’t: At the end of the episode, a trap set off by Prince Ricky (Erroll Shand) destroys Zhang’s fleet, and the pirates’ harbor is destroyed when the English fleet invades the entire fleet to kill or capture it. Jenkins talks us through it all below.

This interview has been edited for decision and transparency.

Polygon: The one thing that surprised me at the right time is that there are two coercive relationships, where a man is forced into an intimate relationship with a woman, and then decides that he likes it. What kinds of conversations went into those relationships and what kind of tropes are you changing there?

David Jenkins: Since Jackie is Swedish and Spanish – including (her husbands). They live on his base, and he basically owns it. So you are already (ick sound). But then I love that the Swede really loves her. It is a bandit, it is a mob. It’s a kind of aspect to have in that role. But then, he says, I found parts of myself that I never knew existed, and other parts that I thought were far gone.

I just liked the idea of ​​Leslie (Jones)’s character and Nat Faxon’s character being together and happy, balancing each other. He already has a wild outcome – he got 20 men. To me, don’t start a relationship as a joke; Oh, Leslie’s fearsome spirit and timid spirit!and it is done in Indeed, they think themselves quite well – that kind of sweet. It’s less about what they essentially own than what they care about. It’s kind of nice.

Photo: Nicola Dove/Max

But you have a very similar dynamic between Zhang and Olu. When they start, he got all the power in the relationship, and the predatory kind of asking about Olu. He is frightened and forced into her, and it turns out that he wants to judge her. It just feels like an odd beat to repeat.

Well, he has all the power in the relationship until he doesn’t. And then he realizes that he loves this man – he is soft and kind and sweet. And it is powerful. I think they mirrored Blackbeard and Stede’s relationship – they are each other’s manic pixie dream girls.

I think there is something in the show about how piracy is an inhumane way of life. It is by itself Mad Maxthis world There is no law, just the strong and the weak. And just like in the stories Game of ThronesLet’s see how it plays out. A lot of women are kidnapped in stories and you like it, (resigned ick sound). In Our flagA lot of these relationships are not consensual relationships – they have dynamic relationships, because it is Mad Max. So things I like to see in this show; Why, indeed, is the more powerful, whose interest is in this weaker man? What are the pairs trying to do?

In a world where he does the right thing, and some people just need to fight with someone, it’s interesting to be like; What does Blackbeard need? What do you need Spanish Jackie? What is the work of Zhang Yi Sao, the most powerful pirate in the world? What happens when he gets into a relationship? What is he looking for? A modern man, what does she need? So you’re always going to have weird dynamic forces, so you start, I guess, and you just try to: What’s underneath that? Why do they do what they do? What are they looking for?

Photo: Nicola Dove/Max

Speaking of what Blackbeard needs, I think some fans will think it’s a form of revenge from Steed in episode 7. So aptly parallels what Stede did. You can read that he is very similar to them, running from the studio, or trying to hurt Stede. What do you want to say to people freaking out after episode 7?

Well, I’m talking about a lot of things – I really, really liked the Bradley Cooper / Lady Gaga version A star rises. I like how dynamic the system is between. Everything we do on this show is collapsing — we talk about these great things, but we don’t have time to do everything we want to do. Like, 4 mini things Who’s Times of Virginia Woolf?a very limited version.

In this case, we proved the idea that Blackbeard found this guy and made him a legitimate pirate, but now that he’s a star, Blackbeard asks what he wants to do now that he’s lost his pirate appetite. And Stede turns into Lady Gaga’s character. Now he is famous because he killed the most feared pirate, so that the power is reversed. It’s interesting to see how the relationship changes now that Merula is no longer a star and Stede is no longer a follower. Stede got what he wanted; The boy is real. Is Blackbeard a rival? Is there a problem with it? When the power dynamics change in a relationship, it leads to trouble. And then it’s really like; What are they going to do? Do they make it through? Can they rebalance? Because this is a sign of a healthy relationship.

That thing is also a big goal for Zhang and Olu, and for Olu and Jim. What went on in the judgments about them, after their connection opportunely 1 in different movements?

I think the relationship was always seen in the room as a friendly relationship that got romantic. That tension was interesting for us – it’s like that. What if we don’t envy? What if we play like this, when you love a friend and it becomes romantic, and then you see someone acting happy and you know they’re not, you feel jealous? But they are also your friends. You want to see them happy. I think a lot of the time, especially in straight relationships, it hurts her, and it can be more about jealousy. But here, I think, it is good to see it this way: they really care about each other enough to want to see their friend as someone good who cares for them. In my life, these are the best relationships (with exes). I see these among my friends, but I don’t see dramatized much, I see the negative side dramatized. I like it that way – they’re friends, and you want them to do well.

Photo: Nicola Dove/Max

This show has never been about villains, but the end of episode 7 feels like a change in that regard.

I think a lot about inner strength Our flag they are criminals. It’s like Can you love yourself? Do you want anything in love? If you want something, are you healthy enough? When entering the tropics (Blackbeard impression) Oh, should I not be gay? or * Oh, my friends made me dirty – as we have seen a lot. The dramatic fodder is good, but I don’t think it’s what drives the show.

I think what drives this show is a bunch of people who care about each other and try to figure out how to have relationships. But relationships are hard. Basically, you are the bad guy or gal or person in the relationship. It’s rare that (someone) does something terrible to you – it’s just trying to get you out of your own shit. I hope it helps your friends.

The big result of ending 7 suggests, however, that more extra pressure can be added to the shot, even if it’s a short-term blip.

I think this story about the pirate age is coming to an end. This is the way of life to the end. And all the good of the West is that story; This way of life is coming to an end, and cannot last. (…) I think that every story about outlaws tries to maintain a way of life against the normative forces that are fascist.

All of this is of great historical importance, down to pirate history, and part of Stede and Blackbeard’s real-life story. Did that element come from history, how did you take small parts of Stede and Blackbeard’s relationship from history?

Historical beats are good because they give some shape to the story — until they’re not useful, and then you ignore them. When you feel like you’d rather eat a sandwich, you just ignore history. And then when they feel OK, we’re in emotional soup here, we need some low pressurethen you will go back to history. The balance of the show is 90% of the history is unknown, and then 10% bring it, whenever we like; Ah, the story must go on! Remember, the English are there, and they are really bad!

In the season 2 finale of Our flag stands for death winds on Max, Oct. 26