Exiled MP tells court it is not controversial to believe women don’t have penises and ‘no man has a vagina’ – as she is cross-examined at defamation trial

Victorian MP Moira Deeming told the Federal Court on Wednesday that it is not controversial to say that women do not have a penis and that “no man has a vagina”.

Protest leaders made the comments during the controversial Let Women Speak rally outside State Parliament in March 2023, which was attended by Ms Deeming, then a Liberal Party MP.

Ms Deeming was testifying at her libel trial against Victorian Opposition Leader John Pesutto over comments he made about her attendance at the meeting.

She claims Pesutto falsely portrayed her as a Nazi sympathizer after she spoke at a rally attended by large numbers of neo-Nazis.

Mr Pesutto’s lawyer, Dr Matthew Collins KC, asked Ms Deeming whether comments made at the meeting by British transgender activist Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull ‘about the fact that women cannot have a penis’ were provocative and controversial.

“There is absolutely no dispute that those things were said at the Let Women Speak meeting. That is literally what we all came to say,” Ms Deeming replied.

Dr Collins was also questioned about the demonstration’s possible links to neo-Nazi groups.

She said comments from keyboard warriors calling her a Nazi or fascist did not stop her from attending the women’s rights demonstration.

Ms Deeming acknowledged that she had received a lot of criticism for her tweet promoting the event, which questioned her association with “brownshirts”, another term for Nazis or fascists.

However, she saw the derogatory comments more as an attempt to provoke her than as genuine concern about her interactions with the participants of the demonstration.

Footage of the rally, showing men dressed in black repeatedly giving the Hitler salute on the steps of parliament, and numerous tweets about the event were shown to the court.

Ms Deeming said she had never seen ‘that footage’ of the Hitler salute and wondered why the group had not been arrested by police.

“I’ve never seen that before, it just proves they’re not for us,” Ms. Deeming said Wednesday.

After the meeting, she received a text message from Liberal Party deputy leader David Southwick telling her to condemn the neo-Nazis’ presence.

However, Ms Deeming said she was unable to send out a press release herself as she was new to parliament and felt such a thing would require party approval.

Instead, she posted a statement on social media.

Earlier, Judge David O’Callaghan opened the hearing with rejection of Mrs Deeming’s application to subpoena Mr. Southwick for communications or recordings.

The application followed a secret recording of a Liberal Party leadership meeting in March 2023, which was shown to the court on Tuesday.

Ms Deeming said that despite her involvement, she tried to avoid becoming a divided member of the Liberal Party after being rocked by internal discord over duck hunting.

“I’ve never seen anything like this between adults,” she told the Federal Court hearing about a heated exchange in the party room.

That is why she asked Mr Pesutto to help her in her fight for women’s rights, without creating a similar situation.

She said the “very warm” Mr Pesutto told her: “It shows me that you are not that kind of person.”

Ms Deeming said she wanted to meet with Mr Pesutto for further advice about the demonstration, but that never happened.

Mr Collins alleged that Ms Deeming had not informed Mr Pesutto of her full involvement in the demonstration because she knew it would be controversial.

“I knew it was controversial. I don’t deny any of those things,” Ms Deeming told the court.

“I just thought I had consulted with my leader and he knew what I was doing.”

When asked if she thought the demonstration would turn violent, Ms Deeming said the threats from counter-protesters made her “more determined to be brave”.

Mrs Deeming will be questioned further on Thursday.

High-profile Liberals will testify during the three-week trial, including federal Senator Sarah Henderson, Mr Southwick and former MP Matt Bach, who now lives in the UK.

Mr Pesutto denies that he did anything wrong.

Ms Deeming has been an independent MP since she was expelled from the Liberal Party.

Mr Pesutto previously reached settlements with anti-transgender activists Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull and Angela Jones, with both publicly apologising for their involvement in the protest.