‘I absolutely believe I’ll see my son in the afterlife’: A very candid Mary Berry reveals a few secrets… and the comfort she takes believing she’ll be reunited with the child she lost
“Have a piece of cake,” says Mary Berry, and who can resist? The lemon drizzle square is as perfect as you’d expect from the Queen of Cakes, who has been teaching us how to make such treats on screen and in books for more than half a century.
Just think of all the nonsense about avoiding this sort of thing, with the chairman of the Food Standards Agency recently saying that workers shouldn’t bring cakes to work so as not to tempt colleagues who try to stay away from them.
‘People say to me, “Oh, I wouldn’t eat cake.” But there’s nothing wrong with cake. It’s about eating a small piece and not going back for a second one,” says Mary, which is a shame because there’s another piece on the plate, sitting there all light and fluffy…
She notices me looking at it and kindly tells me that I can help myself, but that would feel naughty after what she just said.
Like many viewers, I’ve often wondered how she deals with all the pastries in her life, but the secret seems to be to have a little of what you fancy and save the rest.
Mary, 88, and one of her beloved cocker spaniels, Freddie. Mary has a new book and a new TV series, both called Mary Makes It Easy, on the way
Mary’s son William, right, died in a car accident when he was 19. Her daughter Annabel is on the left in the photo
‘I’m now 88 years old and my husband Paul is 91, so we eat less than we used to, but we do enjoy food. I cook what we like and we eat some, the rest I wrap up in slices and put it back in the freezer.’
However, she is surprisingly energetic for her age. As we talk, Freddie the cocker spaniel sits on her lap, while his mother Darcey (named after the ballerina and former strict judge Darcey Bussell) is having breakfast with Paul in another room, overlooking the garden here in Henley-on – Thames.
She is absolutely resistant to those who want to ban treats.
“There’s nothing wrong with a little piece of pie in a child’s lunchbox. A little piece won’t hurt. In fact, it does you good.’
A lot has changed since this graduate of the Parisian cooking school Le Cordon Bleu became food editor of Ideal Home magazine in 1970.
There is tremendous sadness when you become a Lady and you can’t call your mother and say, “Guess what?”
She has written more than 80 books and become a household name on TV, and in that time the portion sizes enjoyed by the British have continued to increase.
‘Have you seen what you get in cafes and at train stations these days? Mega cookies, the size of poppadoms. Slices of cake that are huge. They’re too big. If I was with my husband, we’d both have half.’
Mary married Paul, an antiques dealer she met through her brother, in 1966. How did they stay together for so long?
‘We never argue. If Paul upsets me, I just go to the greenhouse or into the garden. My father’s advice to Paul was: never sleep because of an argument, make friends before you do. And apologize. Even if you think you’re not sorry, you better do it,” she says, chuckling.
‘We have more time together now. It’s beautiful. At this age, many of my friends don’t have their husbands yet, and I still have mine. In his dotage he is more relaxed. And he is extremely grateful to be close to the children and grandchildren who come by.’
Mary and Paul have two children, Thomas and Annabel, and five grandchildren. Granddaughter Abby is now at Le Cordon Bleu Paris herself.
‘She is taking a plant-based eating course. She sends me pictures of things she’s made and says, “Grandma, are you okay with this?”
Abby’s sister Grace stays with them while she saves to travel.
Mary is surprisingly energetic for her age, with Freddie the cocker spaniel on her lap during the interview
“My kids tell their kids, ‘Spend time with Grandpa, he’s not going to be here forever, see what he has to tell you.’ Gracie goes to talk to Grandpa. It’s good not to always be in a hurry, to spend time together.’
This causes a mood swing, as Mary feels the absence of her third child, William, who died in a car accident in 1989 at the age of just 19.
“I remember telling Thomas that William had died. He said, “But Mom, we still had so much to do.” That is his sadness. It stays with you.’
William was home from university in Bristol for the weekend when he borrowed Paul’s car, went around a bend too fast and was killed. His sister Annabel escaped unharmed. Her lost son remains a presence in the family’s life.
“We drink to Will every opportunity we can. And you wonder what might have been. I still see him as 19. He would be 53 now. Who would he be?
‘Yet after all these years his friends from Bristol left flowers and notes in the Penn church (the family lived in Penn, Buckinghamshire for over forty years). It’s beautiful. I think he had an effect on his friends. I hope that makes them drive more carefully.’
Have you seen what you get in cafes these days? Mega cookies the size of poppadoms
Maria regularly goes to church. Is her faith a comfort? ‘Yes absolutely. It’s important to me.’
Is she one of the many people who believe they will be reunited with their loved ones, including her son, in an afterlife? ‘Oh yeah! I think so. Absolute. I hope so. There is comfort in that.’
She also misses other loved ones. “It’s a tremendous sadness when something happens, like you’re made a Dame and you can’t call your mother and say, ‘Guess what?’
‘The first thing I would do is answer the phone for her or for my brothers, but they are not there. You miss them. But you have to move on, we have to think about the future.’
The present is very busy for Mary, who has a new book and a new TV series, both called Mary Makes It Easy, on the way. The book contains 120 easy recipes, from one-pan dinners to fuss-free desserts.
In the series she finds herself in unexpected situations, including darts with Radio 1’s Jordan North and camping with former Bake Off colleague Mel Giedroyc.
THAT’S ME – ON A JOHN LEWIS GREETING CARD!
“There’s a great story to this,” Mary Berry says as she pulls out a greeting card with a photo of a mother smiling as her two children play on her back.
‘I was sitting in John Lewis looking at cards and thought, ‘That’s me!’
Mary thinks this photo was taken in Pembrokeshire, where they used to holiday
She hands me a framed photo with the same image, but inverted.
It is from 1938 and on the back is a letter to her father, congratulating him on winning £100 in a Daily Mirror photo competition.
‘That’s my mother Margery. That’s me. That’s my brother Roger. I remember when it was taken. Dad would say, ‘Smile!'” She imitates him barking the command.
Mary thinks the photo was taken in Pembrokeshire, where they used to holiday.
‘I was two years old, maybe three. I bought one of the cards, then wrote to John Lewis and told them about it and they sent me some.
‘The Daily Mirror had the copyright because they paid handsomely for it in 1938. That money changed my father’s life, it cost several thousand pounds. There was a shortage of money then.’
Her father was an auctioneer and councilor for Bath City Council, and helped set up the city’s university.
‘He was a very brilliant man who got things done. My mother was always with him, behind him. Until my mother came to visit me when I had my first child, they never had a night apart.’
“We’re really good friends,” says Mary. “We did Bake Off and Mel and Sue (Perkins) and Paul (Hollywood) for seven years and I spent so much time together. “I have maintained my friendship with Mel and Sue very well,” she says.
Mary, Mel and Sue remained at the BBC when Bake Off moved to Channel 4 in 2017, while Paul joined the show and is still there, alongside Prue Leith. “Prue slid in beautifully,” says Mary.
The chemistry is still there in the new show, with Mel calling Mary Bezza or Bez.
‘My husband always says it’s more fun with someone by my side on TV, and he’s right. I was so relaxed with Mel.’
Did they actually camp? “We had a tent and we set it up. Well, Mel does. I couldn’t pitch a tent any more than I could fly. We were cooking together and it was so much fun. She was eager to learn and we laughed a lot.”
Mary also makes Crispy Squid and Lemon And Salmon Linguine with Anton Du Beke, Gazpacho and Key Lime Pie with Michael Ball and Prawn Courgetti with AJ Odudu. And Jordan North brought out her sassy side.
“We made a red velvet cake. I put white chocolate balls on it. Lindt copies. Sometimes you have to cheat.”
Sorry? I’m shocked to hear this from the woman who was once so fiercely against Bake Off bakers, but Mary says people should feel good about using shop-bought products like lemon curd. ‘Buy the best you can afford, that makes all the difference.’
Mary was acutely aware that the book came out during a cost-of-living crisis. ‘These are simple recipes with not too many ingredients. As a family we have at least two vegetable evenings a week. More and more people are growing their own.’
She’s used to people stopping her to tell her they made her recipes.
“They’ll say, ‘I made you lemon cake and it was so good.’ The only annoying thing was a letter that said: ‘You have to do something about your teeth with all your money.’ I looked at my teeth and thought, “They’re not that bad, are they?” I thought, “Why would you do that?”’ she laughs.
Her most famous fan has to be the Princess of Wales, who has said that one of the first words Prince Louis spoke was Mary’s name, because her cookbooks were just at their peak in their kitchen.
“She’s as bright as a button. And don’t be fooled, she is very competitive. She’s brilliant. A great ambassador for Britain.’
The same could be said of Mary. But she’s gone to get her picture taken now, so maybe it’s time to risk that other piece of cake…
- Mary Makes It Easy comes to BBC2 later this year.