Donald Trump’s former attorney general said the 77-year-old was not protected by the First Amendment in his election interference case, noting that Trump had freedom to express his views but not freedom to collude. scramble to overturn the election.
Bill Barr said he thought the quadruple indictment, unsealed Tuesday, constituted “a legitimate case.”
Barr, a lifelong Republican who served as George HW Bush’s attorney general before taking the same role for Trump, said he was concerned about a “slippery slope of criminalizing legitimate political activity,” but did not believe the Department of Justice was ‘armed’. against Trump.
Barr was highly critical of Trump’s actions in the aftermath of the 2020 election, telling CNN Wednesday night that he found Trump’s behavior “sickening” and “sickening.”
He declined to answer whether he had spoken to prosecutors during their investigation.
Bill Barr said Wednesday night that he felt Donald Trump had no First Amendment protection against the suit filed Tuesday and accused Trump of seeking to overturn the election.
Barr is seen with Trump and Pence in March 2020. He served as Attorney General from February 2019 to December 2020
Barr quit on December 23, 2020 — in part because he and Trump disagreed over the election results.
Trump’s lawyers have argued that the then-president was simply exercising his right to free speech when he questioned the results, but Barr said the argument was unconvincing.
“I really don’t think that’s a valid argument,” he told host Kaitlan Collins.
“As the indictment says, you know, they’re not attacking his First Amendment. He can say whatever he wants. He can even lie. He can even tell people that the election was stolen when he knew better.
But that doesn’t stop you from plotting. All conspiracies involve speech, and all fraud involves speech.
“So freedom of speech does not give you the right to participate in a fraudulent conspiracy.”
Barr also rejects the argument that Trump was simply following the legal advice he was given, with lawyers such as John Eastman telling him the election was fraudulent.
Eastman is not named in the indictment, but is named as “co-conspirator 2.”
When asked by Collins if Trump could say he followed the advice, Barr replied, “I don’t think that dog is going to hunt.”
Trump is seen on January 6, 2021 before the riot at the Capitol
John Eastman and Rudy Giuliani can be seen on January 6, 2021 – speaking at a rally for the insurrection at the Capitol. Both are believed to be co-conspirators named in the Trump indictment
Jack Smith is pictured explaining the charges at a news conference in Washington DC on Tuesday. He took no questions
Barr continued, “As the people who had any knowledge of whether or not there was fraud, everyone told him that the election was not stolen by fraud.
As for what he could legally do, he wouldn’t listen to the attorneys from different White House departments who had those responsibilities, or his campaign.
“He would look for a lawyer who would give him what he wanted.
“But I’m not sure you could describe what Eastman said as advice. It will be interesting to see. I interpreted what he said to be, well, you know, it’s unclear here, and you could make this argument, and I’m not sure the courts would accept it, and so forth.
‘And that’s what you act on, it’s your own risk.’
Barr said that to prove that Trump is taking legal advice, Trump would have to take the stand and testify — something, Barr said, that “wouldn’t work out very well for him.”
“He would be subjected to a very competent cross-examination and I doubt he remembers all the different versions of events he has given over the years,” Barr said.
Barr said he was now convinced that Trump knew he was defeated by Joe Biden, but still tried to hold on to the White House.
“At first I wasn’t sure, but I’ve come to believe he knew full well he lost the election,” Barr said.
Barr said he was now convinced Trump knew the election was won by Joe Biden
He pointed out that the government “has taken on the burden of proof” and said it was “a high bar”.
But, he added, that led him to believe that Jack Smith, the special counsel who led the investigation, had significantly more material for his case than was set out in the indictment.
“That leads me to believe that this is just the tip of the iceberg,” Barr said.
“I believe he has a lot more.
“And that’s one of the things that impressed me about the charge: I think it’s very frugal.
“I think he has a lot more that can give an idea of his state of mind.”
Barr noted that before the election, Trump’s allies, including Steve Bannon and Roger Stone, were already suggesting that the New York-born tycoon try to claim the vote was stolen.
He also noted Trump’s “lack of curiosity about what the actual facts were.”
Barr said Trump brought all the problems on himself – which was one of the reasons he did not support his 2024 bid.
The veteran Justice Department official refused to say who he supported, insisting he would “choose my poison” when the time came.
He said he felt Joe Biden was “unfit for office” and not “morally superior” to Trump.
But he felt there were far more talented and effective Republicans than Trump.
“Florida, Georgia, Virginia — we have conservative governors broadening the party and bringing people in,” Barr said.
“Trump is a three-time loser and I think he will lose again on a national level.”
Barr is seen on January 15, 2019 taking the oath before testifying before the Senate Judiciary Committee. He was sworn in a month later
Trump told Pence he was “too honest” when he pressured the VP to use his role as Speaker of Congress on Jan. 6, 2021, to overturn the results
He said Trump had only himself to blame for his misery.
“I don’t think this is a matter of his victimization,” Barr said.
“I think he brought this on himself.
“This is one of the reasons I’m against him for the Republican nomination: He has a penchant for these reckless acts that create these catastrophic situations, and then undermine the cause he’s supposed to lead.
“And this is an example of that.”
Barr said he felt sorry for Walt Nauta and Carlos De Oliveira, who were indicted along with Trump in the second case prosecuting Smith — of the Mar-a-Lago classified documents.
Both men work for Trump, and Barr said they showed how little respect Trump had for the well-being of others less powerful than him.
“These two individuals – Nauta and Oliveira – are dragged into this and have their lives turned upside down by Trump to pursue these antics of his.
“He leaves ruined lives like this in his wake, the people who went to the Capitol. These individuals, many of the people who served him in government and were sucked into this.
‘He’s not interested in that. Loyalty is a one-way street for him.
And in many ways these represent two people at Mar-aL R who think they have to man the ramparts and defend this guy no matter what he does and go with him and I think they have to be careful or they’ll end up part of the carnage in his wake.”
He said that all Americans are loyal to the Constitution, not to one individual.
“At some point you get really humiliated when you try to defend the indefensible,” he added.