Jonathan Van Ness breaks down in tears as they spar with Dax Shepard over transgender rights on his podcast: ‘I’m scared of the vitriol that trans people face every day’

Jonathan Van Ness got into a heated argument about transgender rights that led to tears during the latest episode of Dax Shepard’s Armchair expert podcast.

Van Ness, who uses the pronouns they/them and he/him interchangeably and during a heated moment described herself as a “non-binary fucking trans person,” initially pushed back against Shepard’s claim that the New York Times was a left-wing party . newspaper.

The 36-year-old Queer Eye star pointed to a series of articles appearing in the Times about controversies surrounding transgender adolescents and their gender-affirming care, which critics say focus on the complaints of transphobes and overemphasize rare complications or regret the transition. , while at the same time trivializing the voices of actual trans people.

Van Ness — who has previously complained about having to repeatedly explain the importance of personal pronouns — declared that the New York Times is “definitely” a right-wing publication, at least when it comes to reporting on transgender issues, and they shed a few tears when the back and forth continued.

Shepard then defended the newspaper and those who claim to be concerned about transgender children being allowed to begin the transition process.

Close to home: Van Ness said the discussion reminded them of difficult conversations with their father when they defended the rights of transgender youth to play sports and receive gender-affirming care; seen on September 13 in NYC

‘Some people feel very uncomfortable with the transition of teenagers. They challenge that. How do we know the person won’t change their mind?’ Shepard said.

Confusingly, he also shared the more serious counterargument: “If they kill themselves, then it’s really fucking permanent.

“If you even doubt it, you become an enemy. I don’t think this is the way forward,” Shepard added, before inviting Van Ness to share their thoughts.

However, the hairstylist turned TV star found the subject much more personal than the academic exercise Shepard seemed to approach it with, saying the conversation made them “feel like I’m talking to my dad.”

However, they approached the topic systematically, explaining that transgender athletes do not have the kind of competitive advantage over cisgender competitors that opponents claim.

“There are so many things that are so much more important and we’re here saying, ‘Well, there are legitimate concerns (about transgender athletes),” Van Ness continued. “All I’m saying is that what we know about disinformation and disinformation is that when you have an outsized reaction to something, there’s a good chance that you’re going to be exposed to disinformation and disinformation. And a lot of the rhetoric around the anti-trans backlash contains a lot of misinformation and misinformation.”

However, Shepard continued to spar with Van Ness, saying it was “disappointing” to see people “think they’re really fighting” for female athletes with efforts to prevent transgender youth from playing sports.

They also mentioned Harry Potter author JK Rowling, who has been accused of spreading anti-trans bigotry under the guise of caring for cisgender women and lesbians, though they did not call Shepard a transphobe.

‘I am a non-binary trans person. When I talk to my dad or people who say similar things, it’s hard to stay cool about it,” Van Ness said. “I’m not calling you transphobic. You can’t be transphobic and still have thoughts that espouse transmisogyny and transphobic ideologies or beliefs and not be transphobic.”

Shepard, who posted photos from lighter parts of the interview to his Instagram account, subsequently apologized and said he “had no intention at all” of challenging transgender rights after his guest commented that they wished there was more of it interview would have been spent on. to their podcast and Netflix series Getting Curious.

Van Ness then started crying as he said he was defending marginalized members of society.

“I could just cry because I’m so tired of having to fight for little kids because they just want to fit in,” they said. “I wish people were as passionate about the possibility of little kids getting involved or growing up as they are about the fictional fairness of women in sports.

“I must tell you that I am very tired,” they added.

Disagreement: Van Ness became animated after Shepard claimed that the New York Times was a left-wing newspaper, and they cited the series of stories about transgender athletes and adolescent transitions

The devils’ advocate? “If you even doubt it, you become an enemy. I don’t think this is the way forward,” Shepard said of young people being able to receive gender-affirming care

Rebuttal: Van Ness explained why many concerns about transgender athletes were based on misinformation, then clarified that they were not calling Shepard “transphobic” even though they said he displayed transphobic views

Deadly serious: Van Ness added that the debate over trans rights wasn’t just about athletics. “It’s also healthcare, it’s also gender-based violence,” they said; seen in March in NYC

Van Ness went on to say that they were “emotionally exhausted” from having to stand up for transgender rights even as they dealt with the threat of anti-trans discrimination.

“I don’t know if I don’t live like this because I’m afraid of the vitriol that trans people feel every day,” they said. “For people who say, ‘You’re so authentic and so brave,’ that’s not me.”

Van Ness added that the debate over trans rights wasn’t just about athletics.

“It’s also healthcare, it’s also gender-based violence,” they said.